From Paradigm Winter 2021, Issue 6.4

Sitting Tall

Tailwinds from a viral first show have provided momentum for Self Sabotage. The trick now? Not falling prey to the literal meaning of their band name. 

That’s unlikely with just the right amount of organization and drive, balanced with a little—or maybe a lot—of levity. 

By KARI HAMANAKA

Rare is the band that can say their first show involved more than 1,000 people. And fireworks. And the word “epic” thrown out to describe the event in the days, weeks and months following. Self Sabotage can. 

The L.A. hardcore punk band started in the midst of the pandemic — largely on a whim — and began jamming in the summer of 2020, recorded in November and then — stopped. Anti-climactic, right? However, when they picked things back up, it was for that epic, Dead City Los Angeles show in May. 

“Right off the bat, the first note it just went off. Fucking smoke balls. Fireworks,” Self Sabotage bassist Alain recalled.  

One could now say that for the momentum of this band, which is now moving at breakneck speed: shows packed with at least a few hundred people, sewer gigs, Tijuana, Fresno and New York soon. There are also plans for a tape release of their five-song demo, “My Mind Is A Ghetto,” as early as January and eventually a vinyl pressing potentially at some point next year. 

It’s a balance between the calculated strategy required of booking shows and getting four people with crazy schedules - that include the multiple other bands these members are in - to show up at the same time for a gig, while in some cases also winging it and letting the cards fall where they may. 

“I think [the Dead City show] set the precedent for the band as far as the way we operate, where it’s by the seat of our pants and we’re just reacting,” singer Nick said. 

“How many times have we practiced,” drummer Roman asked his band mates. “Probably, in this entire year, less than 15 times.” 

Added Nick: “We’ve played more shows than we’ve practiced.” 

After a couple reschedules and some fierce schedule coordination, the members of Self Sabotage gathered in Glendale one night to talk about their band’s trajectory, growing up going to shows, giving back, creating community and plans for the band in a winding interview that, at the end of the night, Alain said felt a bit like therapy. 

What follows is an edited version of that conversation.  

Given that Dead City show in May was your first, and it got so much attention, is there pressure now that all shows follow similar suit? 

Craig: I think it was Covid and all that was happening at the time.

Roman: It’s only going to be good one time, guys. [laughing]. Actually, we played two shows that day. We played that [Dead City] show and then we went to this place called the Rec Center at 11. 

Alain: It was a birthday party; it was a wild night. 

Roman: But, that first show kind of set the tone for the shows we played. Because, after that, it was the Rec Center show, which was that same night and then the South Central show where we were going from city to city. 

We were supposed to play this other show where we had to drive off road to the spot. 

It ended up getting broken up before we even started. Cops just rolled in at 5, 6 p.m. and so everyone was scrambling to find a [alternative] spot. We ended up playing at a house in South Central and too many people showed up. Two bands played. Vile Life and us. The owner of the house was like, dude, there’s too many people here. They even locked the [front] gate.

Craig: I was trying to get back in. Nacho opened the gate, and everyone just rushed in. It was like sardines in there

Roman: There was prob 500, 600 people there. 

Alain: Then they moved that show to the skate park at Garvanza in Highland Park.

Nick: Which is crazy to me because, coming up in the scene when I was younger, shows weren’t like that. It was very different.

Craig: Everybody was just wound up from being locked up [from Covid].

Nick: So it was interesting seeing that. 

Alain: It just sparked an interest over the internet and people were just like, ‘Fuck, I want to be a part of it.’ There’s all kinds of photographers coming down and I feel like - I don’t know. I feel like some of the people aren’t really in it for the music. They’re just there just to be there, trying to get the pictures. 

Craig: Yeah,  there was a lot of weird people there [at the Dead City show]. 

Weird how? 

Craig: I mean, like hipsters and shit that aren’t punk rockers.

Alain: There was definitely a lot of that. 

Roman: It’s a lot of people that are just like, ‘Wow, this is a crazy attraction.’ They don’t know anything about the punk culture, which is not bad. I mean, they learn about it in a crazy way, but it’s like, ‘Oh, you don’t know.’

Do you think having people who maybe have never been to a backyard show going to the ones that are going more viral, does it ultimately help everyone like a rising tide kind of thing? 

Roman: It always does. The more people that know, the better and right now, because social media is so dominant in the punk scene, it really builds everything up. So the shows that we’ve been playing have all been visually appealing. People see fireworks going off, crazy punk rock pits and dirt or places that are super illegal. So people are like, ‘Oh, all punk rock shows are going to be that way.’ At least, that’s what it’s been and, fortunately for us, we’ve probably played two shows that were not super packed. There’s people there, but every show we’ve played has been consistent 300, 400 people. Just lucked out. 

So is it something you become more mindful of — playing shows that are, I guess, Instagrammable?

Alain: We don’t care. We care more about who’s playing. We want to play with our friends. 

Roman: We want to play with the right bands and you want to gatekeep and have the right morals behind these bands, too.

Nick: That’s a big thing for me, especially with the floodgates opening now and having outsiders, more or less, come into our scene. I think it’s super important for the bands and the people who have been here for a while to really share what we’re about, what’s acceptable, what’s not, you know. 

Roman: Before you just come in here and think this is an all-out party. It’s not. 

Craig: Because there’s a lot of people that go just for the party. 

Alain: Or to fuck shit up and cause harm to other people. That’s not really what it’s about.

Nick: It’s a responsibility, especially for the bands that are playing, to spread a message. I mean, that’s what it’s always been about for me. That’s what I latched onto as a kid and that’s what I feel is super important to encourage people to educate themselves or to think or to do something for their friends or their neighborhood. 

Roman: Thought-provoking punk rock. 

Nick: Exactly. I mean, don’t get me wrong. I don’t party right now, but I’m all about that. Have a good time, fucking drink, do whatever. But, for me, there has to be a balance. It’s not all just fucking mindless. It’s not all just fucking destruction. There’s a lot more to it than that. So I feel that with so much attention on the scene, it could be a double-edged sword — everybody coming to fuck shit up and do a lot of bullshit, but then there’s also a lot of cool shit that has been coming from it. There’s a lot of people taking initiative right now, getting creative and putting out a lot of shit musically or with their photographs or artwork or whatever. So there’s almost like a Renaissance in a way.

Roman: And, it’s not just punks. It’s punks, hip hop kids. Just, anyone from a bunch of different scenes. 

Alain: Yeah, it’s definitely not what I grew up on. 

Craig: Me neither. 

So talk about what you guys grew up with, versus what you’re seeing right now.

Craig: I grew up in the San Gabriel Valley. I’ve been doing this shit forever and I’ve seen a lot of different shit. It seemed like back then there was a lot more hood involved, you know what I mean? 

Alain: Like hood violence.

Roman: This was 1990s to early 2000s. A lot of the punks and kids in the scene right now weren’t even alive then. 

Alain: That’s like what I grew up in, too. The hood mentality, crew mentality. 

Craig: I meet people that were in the scene in Hollywood and it’s totally different from what our scene was here [in the SGV].

Alain: And, it’s definitely died down here in the San Gabriel Valley compared to how it was when I grew up in the early 2000s. It was like every weekend there was four or five gigs in La Puente. 

Craig: Every fucking weekend, there was always something happening in somebody’s backyard. 

Alain: You would go to the show with the best bands, you know what I mean? Or, your friends’ bands. 

Roman: I grew up in Whittier, Pico Rivera. So the metal scene was going on there, but there was also the Pico Rivera hardcore bands like SMD. They had this place called the Deland Spot off of Whittier Boulevard and, I think, Passons [Boulevard, in Pico Rivera] or something and this dude named Big Mike [Thretning Verse] used to throw hardcore punk shows and that’s what opened my eyes to that side of crazy, aggressive punk - more like thrashcore, fastcore, power violence. In that area, particularly, that’s southeast Los Angeles, so Suicidals were there, Pico Drunk Punx and La Mirada Punks. And all the greasers. 

Craig: It never really made sense to me, because a lot of times they were fighting with each other. 

Alain: I feel like now it’s more open. 

Craig: Seems like more of the punks these days are uniting, instead of starting shit like the old days. 

Alain: It was just more clique-oriented back then. It was like me and my homies, and that’s it. There was no social media, so you didn’t know what people were about so you were just like-

Craig: Who the fuck are these foos? 

Nick: It was a little different for me. I bounced around a lot. I was on my own at 16 and that was in Palmdale/Lancaster, in the Antelope Valley. So if we wanted to go to a really cracking show, we would have to bust a mission from the desert down to the valley, San Fernando Valley or down near L.A. And then, up there, there was a lot of fucking racist skinheads. There’s a hardcore gang FSU was up there. 

I moved to Pacoima for a bit and was staying up there and it was super violent out there, too. Even the cops, the first show I played out there a fucking cop had a gun in my face and I was trying to fucking get out of the gig because a fight broke out. 

Roman: I remember leaving a show in East L.A. and we were playing, and the cops came but the gig would not break up. They were like, ‘Stop the gig.’ And we were like ‘no.’ We just kept playing and then a helicopter showed up and we got more gassed up to keep playing, so the cops dispersed pepper balls at us. And I remember I was like, ‘All right, all right. We’ll stop playing,’ and they were shooting me as I was walking away. I was like, ‘Yo, yo, yo. Stop.’

Alain: One of my earliest gigs — what’s that place called? Not Mariachi Plaza. It’s in Boyle Heights though. They have mariachis upstairs. En El Mercadito. It was right down the street from the Mercadito. It was one of my first gigs. It was 2002, 2003. I was a little kid and someone got shot right in front of me. I just seen the flash and everyone just booked it. People were falling on each other. It was, like, damn. 

Roman: That’s a part of at least the way I grew up. I grew up as a rocker, but my whole family, they’re all gangbangers, you know? So I was raised around that kind of stuff — violence, guns and drugs. I mean it wasn’t all bad, but it was there. 

Alain: It was normal. 

Roman: I was used to cops being fucking violent or them pulling over my cousins or arresting them. That’s what I’m used to. So you get exposed to that and you go to punk gigs and you see those kinds of things and you become desensitized to it. I mean, it’s obviously an issue. It fucks with you, but you’re like, ‘Well, fuck.’

Nick: That’s just life.

Craig: There was a lot of gangster homies back in the day. 

Roman: Sometimes gangsters would just show up to shows. 

Alain: For me, it was the opposite. Some of my punk rock homies joined the local gangs just because we were always out in the streets. Skateboarding, too.

Craig: Actually, punk rock saved my fucking life to tell you the truth. 

I met a lot of cool motherfuckers in the scene. I didn’t really have that family life growing up either. I made my family with all my friends that were into this shit, too, and it was fucking rad. 

Alain: Definitely. I even had my older punk rock homies beat my ass because I was hanging out with the wrong people. They heard about what I was doing and I showed up to a kickback. The first thing they did was sock me up, and I fucking cried. I was 16. [laughing]

Roman: That’s what you get, dude. You shouldn’t be doing stupid things. You won’t get beat up. 

Alain: It was funny because they were pretty reckless. 

Craig: But they knew. 

Roman: There was a threshold. 

Alain: Yeah, I was fucking with the wrong crowd. And, that crowd. They’re all fucked up now. A couple of them are dead. So I’m glad and, for real, punk rock definitely — I was more interested in music than anything else. To this day, I’m going to shows all the time. 

Roman: Play in a million bands. All of us play in multiple projects. All of us. 

Right. How many projects total are each of you in?

Craig: Well, he’s [Roman] in like 10.

Roman: No, no, no. You can’t say shit. 

Craig: We’re going to do the Roman Fest or the Alain Fest.

Roman: Alain can do a festival [with just the bands he plays in]. I can do a festival. He [Craig] can do a festival.

I play in a bunch of different bands. I started off in a psychobilly band called Uptown Psychos, and then after that I joined a thrash band called VS-13 that’s inactive right now. From there, I joined a band called Resist and Exist. And then from Resist and Exist, there’s other bands in-between that I can’t remember.

Craig: What year did you start with them? 

Roman: Resist and Exist, 2010. My first show with them was in Riverside, and then I went on to go play with this band called Oi Polloi.

Craig: You played with them?

Roman: Yeah.

Craig: No fucking way. I didn’t fucking know that. 

Roman: You learn something new. I got toasted at that show. Someone put drugs in a joint I was smoking and I started hallucinating, driving in the mountains of Washington. I’ll tell you about that later.

Right now, actively, I have a punk oi band called Hardstride and then a fastcore band called Viewers Like You. And then there’s us, Self Sabotage. This is the most active band out of all of them.

Alain: And we don’t really rehearse; we just play. 

Roman: [Craig] plays in a lot of bands.

Craig: Well, as of now I’m only in fucking two.

Alain: Naked Aggression.

Craig: I simmered down. 

Alain: I play in four active bands right now. One of them’s called Livin’ Alive. That one started in 2012. That was my first band where we started doing stuff, recording and going out on tour. They kind of changed the way I viewed things. I was very antisocial growing up, so they opened me up to all these people and I was like, meh, people aren’t so bad. I used to hate people. 

Nick: That’s wholesome. 

Craig: I still kind of hate people. 

Alain: I do too, but I’m more accepting too. I felt like I found myself with those people. They were all very positive. Then I was in a band called Bitch Attack. 

But, yeah, I’ve always been trying to start bands since I was in middle school and it never happened. All my friends were into drugs so it was, like, whatever. I got into skateboarding. Then, not until the end of high school, my homeboy forced me to play bass for his band, and that’s when I started playing bass. 

[Nick grabs drink.]

Roman: Yeah, there’s no alcohol in there. You’re good.

Nick: All right, just making sure. 

Roman: He’s not allowed to drink alcohol

Craig: He’s the sane one in the band. He keeps us together. I’m scared for when you start fucking drinking again.

Roman: I don’t think you should. I think you should let us have the fun.

Nick: I get stuck working the merch table. Keeping track of the calendar. 

Craig: Because you don’t carry any equipment. 

[laughter]

Nick: What? I don’t carry equipment? I do more work now as a singer. I carry all the equipment

Alain: That’s true. He provides all the equipment for all the shows. Hey [Nick], tell her about your bands. 

Roman: You guys play in a band together that doesn’t play shows. 

Alain: That’s how I met him. We started jamming with the homeboy named Fernando. We had this — what kind of music is it? 

Nick: It’s like crusty, tupa punk. D-beat

Alain: It’s funny, but that was my first drum beat. I didn’t even know that [tupa] was a thing. 

Because the homeboys Noize Pollute [see issue 6.3, Spring 2021] have that beat for everything and then all the bands I like, like the Mexican punk bands like Sindromé … 

Craig: It’s funny how we explain a drumbeat.

Alain: Yeah, we had a project. We’ve been doing it, what? Three years already?

Nick: Coming up on four, because I first jammed with you when I first got clean. And, I’m coming up on four years clean in February. 

Alain: Shit, and we never did nothing. Not even nothing. But, Nick plays in a couple bands, too.

Nick: Right now, it’s Self Sabotage and then I play drums in another one called Gottlieb. That one’s fairly new. And then I play in Marred with [Alain] and Fernando. And then I was playing with Underground Alliance, but I had too much on my plate because I’m in school, too. So I had to take a step back.

Roman: He has homework and stuff. There’s so many people that hit us up for shows on our Instagram, and it’s [Nick] responding before I can respond and he’ll type ‘The singer’s really busy right now,’ and I know it’s you typing. 

We just got hit up for Salt Lake City today. 

Craig: Fuck Salt Lake City.

Roman: Oh, see. See how you are? You just had a bad — I played a Build-A-Bear Workshop in Salt Lake City

Craig: Are you serious? 

Roman: I swear to god. I was on tour with the Oi! Scouts and Corrupted Youth. We went to this really, really nice shopping mall. We walk inside and I’m like, ‘Where are we going to play? There’s no one here,’ and we turned a corner and there’s like 300 punks outside. It’s a Build-A-Bear Workshop.

Craig: What the fuck. 

Alain: Fill ’em up. [laughing]

Going back to the start of Self Sabotage. Where did the name come from?

Craig: Once I heard that name, I knew it was going to be a disaster, and it kind of has been.

Roman: Look at this outfit [points to Craig]. Look at this outfit. He’s wearing Dickies and a robe with sandals. [laughter]

Nick: We were just throwing names out, throwing ideas out and that was the one I threw out.

Alain: What was yours? 

Craig: Death Party

Alain: That reminds me of Oingo Boingo. “Dead Man’s Party.” 

Roman: I want people to not take us seriously.

Alain: Yeah, we’re not serious. 

Nick: We never get anything done.

Roman: Honestly, we have gotten a lot done

Alain: We have. I don’t know how to explain it, but it’s just fun. You know what I mean? 

Craig: It’s a stress reliever for me, really, being a part of this and jamming with cool dudes. I deal with fucking bullshit at work or wherever, and you get with the boys and you’re having a good time.

Nick: I think in terms of the band name, that one came to mind because it’s something I relate to. Just, throughout my life, I’ve always shot myself in the foot. I’ve always fucked up.

Craig: That’s why I was scared to have that name.

Roman: I don’t want to live up to it.

Your debut demo came out in September. Did you also think of the name for that, Nick? 

Nick: So, the name and the artwork is a parody of ‘The World Is A Ghetto,’ which is an album by War that they put out in 1972. I’m a big fan of War. They’re one of my favorite bands. 

A lot of the lyrical content of those [demo] songs was or is based around my drug addiction, my using and my mental state at that time. My mental state, fuck, it was a ghetto in there. It’s violent. It’s scary. It’s depressing. It’s fucking grimy, and it’s a dark place. 

Even the intro to that demo, it’s a poem by Emily Dickinson. And it’s talking about how there’s nothing scarier than being alone with your thoughts, or being alone with yourself, you know? So that’s where that came from. 

How does how much of where or how you guys grew up factor into what your songs are about, or your style of playing? 

Roman: I think all the way through. There’s a song that we have called “Soy Asesino” and that song is how I viewed growing up in that environment. So earlier I was saying I grew up around gang violence and just that lifestyle. That whole song reflects what I was seeing, you know what I mean? 

Craig: Yeah, it’s basically about the hood and all the crazy shit. 

Roman: Not being a product of your environment, but just seeing and being aware of what’s going on. 

A lot of people aren’t aware of that, especially this side of the world. This is the Westside. It’s LA. It’s mostly Hispanic punk rock bands that are happening right now. People in other states across the world, they don’t know anything about this. People don’t really understand growing up in those neighborhoods unless you’re there. So that’s what I grew up with and that’s what I choose to write about because that’s what I personally went through. 

And, as far as how it drives me to play, I wanted to play music because I didn’t want to do that. I wanted to play music and get away from that as far as I could. 

Nick: Songs like “Soy Asesino” they’re super important, at least to me. At face value, depending on how you interpret it, it could come off as glorifying that lifestyle. But, for me, it’s more about how people experience trauma and they cope with it in different ways. It’s not always healthy and so it’s a much deeper issue than just going out and fucking running drugs and hitting a lick and coming up. It’s a deep-seeded issue. It’s a systemic issue that creates these environments where people are just trying to survive and put food on the table, or just make it through another day without getting fucking killed. 

So it’s more of a story than glorifying it — well, fuck it, shoot up the neighborhood kind of thing. That influences the way I take the music as far as going back to what I was saying earlier about bands have a responsibility to share the stories — their stories or the stories of their community — and represent it in a certain way. But, don’t get me wrong. Not all bands have to be so serious and fucking deep and have this mind-blowing philosophy or something. It’s just something that’s important to me. 

Craig: You’ve got to have some wit somewhere. It can’t just be all fucking serious; it’s depressing. 

Nick: That’s where they come in, because you guys are all fucking clowns. I have a different mindset and they balance it all out for sure. 

Craig: And just the aggressive riffs and shit, that helps me cope. I thrive on that shit. The feeling I get. That’s the way I express myself. 

Roman: It’s a musical conversation. 

Alain: I had rage issues growing up. So, in my 20s, I learned how to cope with it by playing music.

Craig: I’ll fucking tear up sometimes when I’m playing. 

Alain: I’ll sweat like it’s a mental fight. Get into it, you know? And depending on how the crowd is, I’ll get more into and that’s the best feeling. I love that shit. I’m beat after that. I feel like I got into a fight. 

Nick: For me, I’ve probably quit the band every fucking show right before a set. I have mad social anxiety. 

Alain: I still get that, too. 

Nick: I’m not used to being with the mic, in front. I’m using to being on the drums, in the back. So it gets pretty bad for me, but it’s become this release. It’s the way I deal with — because I’m constantly going through these existential crises and dealing with death and dying. This is how I ground myself at the fucking shows. This is how I make my time count and bring myself here and be present. It’s free therapy for me.

If you’re dealing with anxiety, how do you handle the large crowds you’re in front of at shows? 

Nick: In terms of how do I deal with the anxiety before a show, it boils down to if I were to fucking die tonight after this show or the next day or whatever, would I be OK walking away from this and just not even trying? For me, it’s all about going up there and leaving it all up there. You go up there. You give it your all.  You fucking put it all out. And, I can walk away satisfied with that. That’s what I keep at the forefront of my mind. 

My family — my grandfather, specifically — they sacrificed a lot for me to be here and for us to be where we’re at. So I always carry my family and my community with me in my heart. That’s what drives me and that’s how I walk through anything, any challenge or issue that I have. You just leave it all up there. 

Alain: Sometimes I’ll hide out before we play. You guys remember, you’ll be like, ‘Where he’s at?’ And I’ll show up and plug in and then play. Like in South Central, I remember that day. Remember? I left to go bowling after that, but I remember after the show I don’t know what was going on. Sometimes I’ll just have those days. But then once I’m up there, I black out. Once I’m playing, I just literally black out. I don’t know what’s going on.

What it does for me, it’s a whole different high.  And those 30 minutes do a lot. And after that,  you’re still on that high. 

Roman: Yeah, when we were playing that Dead City show, someone recorded a video of [Alain]. He was dressed up in a beer costume. 

Alain: Yeah! They made me!

Roman: They made me. 

[laughter]

Alain: No, he dared me. 

Roman: I was all, ‘You should wear this.’

Alain: I was all, ‘Nah…. All right.’

Roman: He was dressed up as a giant beer and then he picked up a Modelo and someone recorded him. 

Alain: My friend, she was on the side, and she caught the moment. Candid. Opened the can. First beer of the night, took a swig and was just like, ‘Oh, yeah.’

Nick: Just looking at all the people. 

Alain: Just the crowd. I remember when I first got on that stage, I stood up and looked out at the crowd. I was like, ‘Oh my god. This is like The Warriors, the opening scene where you see all the different gangs. I could see all the homies from La Puente, East L.A. …. 

Craig: I’ve been here a long time and I’ve never seen a show pop off like that, and it was fucking amazing. The way they set it up and everything. 

Roman: Shout out to Dead City Punx. 

Craig: True underground shit at its finest. 

Alain: They boosted us. 

Roman: Yeah, Dead City definitely put us on for sure, and they set the standard for crazy punk shit. Just crazy outrageous shit. 

Craig: That’s kind of how I feel it should be. Fucking DIY, do-it-yourself shit. 

Roman: That’s the whole ethos. It should have always been like that, but you don’t have DIY venues. You don’t have that kind of stuff in LA. We don’t have that luxury to just go play wherever we want. It’s like you only have so many venues and a lot of the venues suck. Like terrible security. They charge $1,000 just for you to rent the space. There’s no place for punk bands really. Right now, I lucked out for that place, the Billiards [First Street Pool & Billiard Parlor in Boyle Heights]. That’s kind of the safety haven, the hub. It’s got good sound. You can fit like 500 people in there and it’s local for everyone in L.A.

It’s cool to support the locals. The owner’s from Boyle Heights, so you’re supporting their business, not just giving it to some random ass club. 

You guys mentioned not really practicing. Do you view the band as something that’s just for fun, or do you have bigger aspirations? 

Roman: For me, I want to do this. I’m all in. I want to do this band. This is what I want to do. I want to tour. I have aspirations. I have things I want us to do. 

Alain: You two guys [Roman and Nick], they’re kind of like the ones pushing. 

Craig: We call them the kingpins. 

Roman: Right now, out of the gate, as soon as we did that first show, I was like, ‘We’ve got to book. We’ve got to keep doing things.’ You’ve got to stay relevant and you can’t always play L.A., so I try to push for us to play in different places like Fresno, Lancaster. 

Alain: I mean, what? Our third show was in fucking TJ.

Craig: San Diego and Tijuana. 

Roman: The next thing is we’re going to New Jersey to play in New Brunswick, with a band called the Dusters and a band called Urban Waste. After that, we’re going to see The New York Hounds; we’re going to see their last show. 

Nick: And then we’re going to play in Queens the following day. 

Alain: Oh, wow. I didn’t even know. 

Craig: I didn’t know either.

Roman: It’s in January. 

Nick: And then we’re going to Mexico for a week in February.

Roman: I like to push us to do things. And then hopefully, if we’re still on the same page, we’re going to Mexico to do Mexico City, Guadalajara and Morelia. 

Alain: What’s also worked for us is that we’ve all played all over the place. So we all have a lot of connections, and we all use our connections. 

Roman: It’s all a DIY network. It’s not like we’re going through any agencies. Everything is word of mouth, messages. Honestly, when I reached out to that band Dog Breath to put us on in Queens, I didn’t think they were going to respond to us. 

Just, if there’s any advice that I can give to bands, is just fucking do it. Do it and fucking ask everyone. 

Alain: And bring bands into your town. Book bands that are coming through. Hook them up with shows. 

Nick: And I think it’s important to note, yes, go out and do it, but be genuine and don’t be a fucking asshole. Be supportive. Don’t just expect people to support you and your shit. 

Craig: It’s not a contest; don’t think you’re fucking better than anyone. 

Alain: Because I do see that. I see that. 

Craig: That’s what happened a lot back in the day. There were always bands in conflict and ‘We’re better than you’ and this and that. It was always about who was better and shit, but that’s not what it’s about.

Nick: It’s like, do it, but do it right. There’s a right way to do it. 

For me, as far as going back to aspirations for the band and whether it’s just for fun, music in general — like punk music and my career path mesh into one. I try to blend them and it’s super important for me to do that. 

I found what I wanted to do because of punk music and because of the sense of community and the sense of taking care of one another and direct action and mutual aid. So nursing and punk music are like this for me. 

I have aspirations for my bands that I want to do. But, ultimately the bands are a vehicle for me to make my world a better place, to help people, to spread a message, to encourage other people to raise money to donate. All that shit. So, if anything, those are my aspirations: to leave this world a little less shittier than it was when I came in. 

Everyone defines success for a band differently, so what is that for each of you? Is it playing big shows or something more along the lines of  what Nick just said?

Roman: I think it’s a mix of everything. I want my bands to be successful. In a perfect world, this would be sustainable, where we can live and play music. That’s not the case. 

Alain: We all have jobs, but we’re willing to just go for it. 

Roman: Before me and Nick were playing in a band, we were really into mutual aid stuff, like helping the community and wanting to inspire that in the punk scene. That’s what the goal was, to ignite that kind of flame. 

People don’t realize that punk, it’s not just about you. It’s about your community, what’s around you, your neighbors, the people you walk by every single day that you don’t pay attention to. 

Craig: I’m totally down just for the charity part of it, like helping out the community and shit. That’s why I do this, too. 

Alain: And expect nothing. Music owes me nothing.

Craig: I don’t care if I get paid. 

Alain: Music saved my life, you know what I mean? I owe music for sure. I’ll sacrifice myself for this shit. I’ll lose sleep over this shit. I don’t care. 

Nick: It’s definitely a labor of love. 

For me, I think success would be this project is able to consistently do something. A lot of bands will get some momentum. They’ll reach a certain point and then something will happen and they’ll fizzle out. You know, inner turmoil, some substance issues, fucking personality conflicts. All that shit. Success would be us just being a cohesive unit, doing whatever it is that we want to do. Still having that autonomy and that drive to just keep pushing and keep trying new things. That, in and of itself, keeping a group of individuals consistently working towards something, takes a lot. 

So it doesn’t even have to be a band that made it. Local bands that have been around for a long ass time, they’re still playing. 

To me, that’s successful because it definitely takes a lot.  

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