BRANDON CRUZ: RULE BREAKER

Why the punk rocker, photographer, skater and surfer won’t stop learning, traveling and playing: “If you know everything, then why are you still here?”

Human beings place a lot of codes onto themselves when it comes to life.

You’re supposed to finish learning by a certain age, get married at another plot point on the timeline and have kids by this marker all in a bid “to grow up.” It’s the codification of life. Typically, conversations with individuals in bands that have been around for even 10 years have a tendency to focus on glorifying the past and forgetting about the future as though our best days are behind us.

In the case of Brandon Cruz, it’s all about the now and moving forward.

Cruz’s resume is long: an actor whose career began with the 60s/early 70s sitcom “The Courtship of Eddie’s Father,” followed by vocals for bands such as Dr. Know and Dead Kennedys and current singer in KNOW and Ass Bastard.

Despite all of this, Cruz is the first to admit at times he can suffer from a big ego. He’s constantly pushing himself to learn, exposing himself to new people and cultures without restricting himself to the rules we’ve tricked ourselves into believing we have to live and die by.

In a wide-ranging conversation that took place not long after KNOW played an Oxnard backyard show and before he left to go back to Copenhagen, where he lives out part of the year, Cruz, yes, touched upon the past but also talked about the scene in Europe, self-awareness, doing rather than trying and learning to juggle.

Someone recently asked me if KNOW is Dr. Know 2.0. I’m sure people would appreciate hearing the backstory from you of how that came to be.

Well, Ismael [Hernandez] and I had been originally in Dr. Know in ’81. I quit in ’83, so I really wasn’t in the original lineup that long. They went through a bunch of different people and then went into their metal stuff. Some people say they weren’t a punk band anymore.

You know, they did some great stuff. I’ve always been a fan of Kyle’s [Toucher] music and his writing. He’s just really good.

I’ve always remained close with Ismael. I think they quit playing around ’90 as a band for good, and around ’98 Ismael and I were talking. We just felt like it was time to do it again. A bunch of our friends that we had grown up with and bands that we had known since we were all pretty young were either coming back or had not quit playing. So we asked Kyle if he would join and he said no.

Bands change members all the time and just because one original guy isn’t in the band and others feel like reforming and playing music again because they love doing it, I’ve never seen anything wrong with that.

We started playing with Mike Vallejo from Circle One and a couple other people. So around ’98, we did some really amazing, fun reunion shows. Played with Poison Idea and Battalion of Saints.

Around 2000, 2001, we teamed up with these two kids from El Monte, Eric [Vasquez] and Craig [Cano]. They were teenagers, but they were amazing and they loved the band. We toured and it went well and we kept playing.

We went up in Canada and we played with Dayglo Abortions. We went on tour with them. We headlined our own tours. We went off with Stäläg 13 all the way to Canada, and then I joined Dead Kennedys in 2001.

Every time I would come home from tour with them, I would then go off on tour or do local shows with Dr. Know. We never felt that we needed to change Dr. Know. It’s pretty iconic artwork that Jaime [Hernandez, co-creator of the comic “Love and Rockets”], Isamel’s brother, had drawn. It’s recognizable.

Ismael – he writes a lot of music and a lot of lyrics. He’s just such a talent and a presence. Audiences were really receptive and it was just a big reunion with friends and family. We just had a blast and we played off and on for a long time.

The band had done a decent body of work that unfortunately Mystic [Records] had most of the masters to, and they just kept putting it out. Rather than fight Mystic or sue them, we just went along with it.

There’s really nothing you can do when people just steal your stuff and keep putting it out. It was never about making any money. We never wanted to hire a lawyer. It’s a punk rock band. No need for a lawyer when you’re going to spend $2,800 to win $200.

We’d gotten another couple new members and we recorded with them in 2009. We had a Canadian label that was interested. So we put out a record with them and we toured more. I started going off to Europe and working and the band wasn’t doing anything for a while.

In the meantime, I forgot when – maybe 2010, ’12 something like that, Kyle started Dr. Know up again and they did a handful of shows. There was a Facebook page that came out that Kyle had put up called The Real Dr. Know featuring Kyle Toucher. That was fine he used the name. Totally fine, but there’s animosity between Kyle and I. I don’t know why. He was never happy that we did Dr. Know without him. I guess he feels the only version of Dr. Know is if he’s singing. I disagree with that.

His version of the band was scheduled to play a big gig in Oxnard and there was a pre-party for it, and I showed up. I hadn’t seen him in a long time and he looked at me and he said ‘I see you’re here to see how it’s really done’ and I laughed. I said ‘Well, have fun’ and he said ‘I don’t do it for fun.’

That kind of struck me as, well, an odd thing to say. I’m not going to go into why he does it or what it means to him to do it because I don’t know other than him telling me ‘I don’t do it for fun.’ But I’ve always said and I’ve been very vocal about it and public about if he wanted to do a reunion and all of us do it, I would love to do it. For some reason, he doesn’t want to do it. So he continues to do The Real Dr. Know featuring Kyle Toucher.  Kind of a long name.

After a little break of us not playing and Kyle trademarking and copyrighting Dr. Know in the United States, me and Ismael and a couple of the guys were hanging out. It was Larry White, who was in the band in the metal years and he was also the drummer of Aggression and Stäläg 13, and Dave Casillas, who was in a very, very early original line up of Dr. Know. He was also in Stäläg 13 and NOFX. We were all up in Santa Barbara and just kind of looked at each other, ‘Hey, we’ve all been in Dr. Know. We should play. We should put the band together because these are all people who have been in Dr. Know at different times.’

Just before that, I had been in Canada at a festival and Keith Morris was there. And he had formed OFF! and they sounded a lot like Black Flag, and then they decided to do FLAG. FLAG was performing at this place in Canada. This was about three years ago. I was sitting with my back to [Keith] and he overheard me saying that I was heading back to the States soon and thinking about Dr. Know again, but didn’t know what we were going to do because there’s the trademark thing. This copyright thing. I just felt having a lawyer involved was rather silly and, wanting to avoid a lawsuit, we didn’t know what we were going to do. And Keith leaned over in typical Keith fashion and said ‘Why don’t you call it KNOW, like FLAG?’

So we did it. We formed KNOW. Stäläg 13 was planning a trip to Europe, and we decided to go with them. So we got booked on the 17th gig. So we’re playing Dr. Know songs. We had shirts printed up that said KNOW and they had their Stäläg 13 stuff. And every night at the merch booth, Stäläg 13 sold everything and we sold barely anything because they didn’t know who we were.

We have a Facebook page. It’s called Unofficial KNOW.

We’re going to do our own little tour of other parts of Europe. We haven’t been to Ireland and Scotland. Maybe Iceland. So that’s kind of where we’re at now. I split my time between the States and Copenhagen. I’ll take the train to Germany or I’ll pop down to Italy and just go visit friends and see things in Europe.

What brought you out there?

I was just stagnating in the States. I’m not a big fan of any politicians that have been running this place since I could remember. There’s never been anything decent and punk rock took a weird turn.

The people in Europe are just, they’re just nicer. It’s more accepting, more open minded,  more all-encompassing. The subgenres, although they do exist, there’s a definite line between hardcore and punk or black metal or punk. But they coexist. The scenes are really small. There’s skate spots everywhere. They have waves. So I can skate and surf, and I can play music and go to gigs. I can see all different kinds of music and then tour.

A lot of people said when Trump gets elected, they would move over here. Well, I actually did.  

You mentioned punk taking a weird turn. What do you mean by that?

I joined Dr. Know in ’81. I’d been around the scene for a while before that. It was just different back then. The whole SoCal punk rock scene was pretty magical back when it was in full swing and Hollywood was being run basically by 19-year-olds who were booking halls and throwing shows.

Punk rock gangs were a part of me getting out of it. It got really violent and it got really stupid. And it got really filled with drugs. I got really fucked up and I think that’s why Dr. Know with me involved didn’t do anything until 1998 because I got sober in ’96. I wasn’t capable of putting on a show or being coherent enough to do a lot.

I talk to people now that didn’t have drug or alcohol problems, who are a lot younger, and they keep mentioning all these bands and all these people [from that time] and I say ‘I have no idea what you’re talking about.’ Because I don’t remember a lot of the 80s or 90s.

I would go to shows, but I was loaded and I didn’t care. It became more of a drug scene for me. Some people it was violence. Some people it was drugs. Some people it was both, and then the subgenres started popping up and all of a sudden they were calling slam dancing moshing. Crossover bands never bothered me. I love D.R.I. I love Corrosion of Conformity and bands like that. Dr. Know was one of them. Whether I’ve been in the band or not, I’ve always been a huge fan of Dr. Know. Kyle wrote some good stuff and so did Fred [Mataquin] and so did Ismael.

What was the local scene like at that time when you joined Dr. Know before things took a turn?

Everybody borrowed from each other back then. When I was in my original band, I wrote “Body Count” and we traded them for two Aggression songs that Dr. Know never did live. There were a lot of side projects. Stäläg 13 and Aggression had a little combo with Mark Hickey. There were all these little bands that played house parties. There was a lot of sharing in the early 80s Oxnard scene and people jumped around from band to band a little bit.

We were just a bunch of drunk, stoned kids having a good time living on the beach. Hollywood was definitely not the beach. The really rowdy violent part of punk rock was from the southern beaches, down from Orange County. Huntington, Redondo and Hermosa .

The Huntington crowd really that came into Hollywood, they invented slam dancing. That wasn’t a Hollywood thing. Hollywood was still pogoing. Hollywood was older. More of a mix of races and a lot of women involved. Alice Bag and all the women from Disgraceland. When all the violence started and people started slam dancing, the women didn’t want any part of it.

I was pretty out of it by then. A lot of kids were coming from broken homes and there was a lot of drugs. I moved to L.A. and punk had already died off. That was ‘83, ’84. Goldenvoice started doing all the big shows at the Palladium arena and there were 5,000 people at the Palladium to see Bad Religion. Epitaph got big and all these bands that I didn’t know, just younger bands started coming up.

It got so popular that it just kind of seemed different. It made me not want to be a part of it anymore. There’s a stupid, old saying ‘I remember back in the day when it was fun and you knew everyone.’ Well, I really do remember when I knew everyone, and in the mid-80s I didn’t know anybody. People were either ODing or going to jail or turned into metal bands. And the Oxnard scene kind of died off. The 90s were pretty bleak I guess until around ’98, ’99 when people started coming back.

It was weird, but I was off doing weird stuff and then I got married and I had kids.

Are there plans for KNOW to release new material?

Yeah we’re definitely talking about that when we get some time. I have to physically be here. I’m in Nevada right now and then back to Copenhagen. I’m basically booked until September doing gigs [in Europe]. They treat you so well in Europe. The sound systems are really good. There’s more beer and water than you would expect for a venue to give you. You play the States and you have to ask for two drink tickets and $100 for gas money. In Europe, I don’t know where they get the money. They just give. The way the scene works over there, it’s beautiful. They just take care of each other. You always have a place to stay.

People are so amazing and open and they don’t exclude anybody and a lot of the squats are in places that are starting to get gentrified. Antifa is huge over there. The Nazi bonehead scene exists there, but the punks put it down all the time. In Copenhagen, they don’t even fuck with them anymore.

The Copenhagen punk scene is basically born out of these riots. They fought the cops for like eight days. They fought over a squat. I don’t see that happening in the States very much. It’s much more of a political statement and movement and feeling in Europe, which I think is missing, especially with what’s going on in the States now. Why aren’t there more uprisings and protests about the current political situation? It didn’t support the everyday citizen. It’s for the rich. And the rich get richer and fuck everybody else. None of us are rich. None of us [in music] are expecting to become rich from it, but when 99 percent of us are doing all the work and all these fuckers get fucking off on it.... There’s still rioting in France.

I was in Berlin with a friend in October and we came walking around the corner. We had heard that there was going to be a demonstration, 250,000 people. And we got to be involved.

Why do you think the scene Stateside is lacking when it comes to political statements and pushing for change?

Ronald Reagan in this country gave people a lot of reasons to write really good political punk rock songs. It’s kind of disappointing that two years now with this [Trump] situation, I haven’t really heard – maybe I haven’t been listening – but I don’t know who’s doing the really good, strong political stuff. I know there are bands. I know Alice Bag is doing an amazing amount of work to empower people of color and LGBTQ and the women’s movement. And Bikini Kill’s getting back together, so all of this is underground subversive political punk stuff.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, in the States it’s getting overshadowed by, ‘Oh, the Misfits are getting back together.’ Who fucking cares? It’s not going to change anything. ‘But they’ve got the Cro-Mags and The Distillers.’ And it’s like OK in what world do the Cro-Mags and The Distillers share a stage? The tickets are [as much as] $200. It’s confusing.

I don’t understand American punk rock mentality or American mentality.

This is just my opinion and I could be completely wrong, and I’m totally fine with that. For me, I just look at the way certain bands are adored and they completely suck. And there are bands that are completely amazing and nobody pays attention to them. I don’t get it at all.

It’s a capitalist society. Everybody wants to play bigger and bigger shows. You want more people to see you. It’s just human nature. But I don’t know. I’ve not given up, but I’m very satisfied with whatever happens at any shows I’m playing. I don’t really care if there’s an audience. Playing the music is meditation. It’s free.

A lot of the [new crop] of Oxnard bands just remind me of what we did back in the day. They’re just skaters and surfers throwing shows.

It’s pretty funny to see the new generation still going. My nephew [Dalton Cruz] drums in Bootleg Brigade. It gives me hope that when I come back, these kids will still be holding it down and maybe they’ll come over to Europe and I can show them how different the world is.

I think it’s important to be a socially conscious human. Experience other cultures and experience other ways of doing things. Just because you were born in this place doesn’t mean this is the only place and this way of life is the only way of life.

I encourage everybody in a band or who is a fan of this type of music to go to Mexico City and go to a punk festival. You’ll see things you’ve never seen before. They have a punk rock flea market in Mexico City and there’s thousands of people. Or go to the Rebellion festival in England and you’ll see 10,000 punk rockers wandering around. It’s not like the punk festivals here in the States that just seem like big jock fests.

The nardcore scene – it’s very close-knit. You really felt that at the [March zine release] show. You don’t always come away with that kind of feeling after every show. Why do you think there is that sense of community?

It’s because it’s us against the world. It’s Oxnard. It’s fucking Oxnard. What a horrible name. You know, we were born on the wrong side of the tracks from the get go. The community, the sense of unity among all the bands is because we’re so isolated.

Back when I was a teenager and we didn’t have the internet and we didn’t have cell phones, the only way you knew about where a gig was is if you got a ride to a local record store or somebody handed out flyers. Yeah there’s social media and you can post, but people are close and tight there because we’re not from L.A. We’re not from San Francisco. We’re not from anywhere but Ventura County.

Even the term nardcore carries so much weight as far as what it implies and that resonates outside of the region.

At first nardcore was pretty much four or five bands from Oxnard. Then it started to branch out. NOFX was kind of considered a nardcoreish band because they had Dave Casillas, but they really weren’t. RKL was definitely a nardcore band because they played with us all the time. They surfed; we surfed. We all skated. So they were accepted in that they were welcomed as like-minded and it’s still going on today. There’s bands from El Rio. There’s bands from Montalvo, Port Hueneme, Camarillo, Thousand Oaks. And they’re all coming together. They need a PA? Somebody goes and gets it. Someone needs heads, someone gets theirs. It’s a family mentality. It’s banding together for survival. They want this music to continue. They want their scene to stay alive.

Nardcore’s grown to be much bigger than Oxnard, but there’s still some abusive behavior with the word. There’s still some bands that are just using it to further their career. Whatever that means. There’s no career in this, but when you’re a part of it, you know you’re a part of it.  

It’s that sense of community that got lost in that hustle to be the best and the biggest and the most popular. It’s the same in East L.A., too. Nacho and that whole crew in Corrupted Youth, they do an amazing thing. I feel just as much at home there as I do in Oxnard. If you see Nacho, you know it’s going to be all right.

This is a soundtrack that’s forming these young minds and hopefully changing the minds of older people to say you know what? These kids have a say. We weren’t just goofing off. Our songs dealt with some serious topics. If you listen to the bands now, it’s just a continuation of what was started in the early 80s, which was a bunch of white, Mexican, Filipino, Japanese colorblind people. We were all out on Silver Strand, which was where the people who couldn’t live anywhere else in Oxnard went. It was the end of the road.

It just didn’t matter. Nobody cared back then what you were, who your parents were. It’s like we were starting from scratch. Here’s this new music. Here’s all these weird kids who probably aren’t study body presidents and probably aren’t cheerleaders.

Now, punks are cheerleaders. Punks are student body presidents. Punks are running things. It’s grown, but it’s not grown too out of control to where its lost its way, to where it’s lost its meaning.

I think the true meaning of nardcore still remains to be found out. There’s still new things and what that’s going to be I’m excited to find out. I just can’t live there.

You talked about Kyle and the trademarking situation earlier. What advice would you give to people in bands who may find themselves in similar situations?

Quit the band. Be with likeminded people. Nothing’s forever. Nothing lasts forever. Things change. People change. Be true to what you feel and know you’re doing something.

I don’t think punk rock was supposed to be about profits. Sure, we need to get paid for all the equipment and the time and travel and stuff, but outside of that, I always tell kids if they want a T-shirt to make their own.

The whole trademarking of Dr. Know was I think more of a frustrated ploy to get us to stop doing what we’re doing. But I don’t know how you get people to stop having fun.

When a band, I think, starts to get popular or starts to get more famous, unfortunately now with technology and the internet and people wanting to rip off stuff – I don’t know how many times we’ve seen shirts sold on Facebook or the internet that are not authorized by the bands. That’s your heart. That’s your soul and that’s what you’ve put out there to represent you.

You have to take the whole greed thing out of it because, really, it’s just kind of greedy. I think with these new bands right now, they’ve got to be protected in some way. Do your research. Get on the internet. Find out how to protect your stuff. If we had known how to protect ourselves against Mystic, we wouldn’t have worked with Mystic. I’ve talked two bands out of signing to Mystic.

There’s a lot of scammers and unscrupulous people out there. So my advice to a band is to either don’t give a fuck. And if you get popular, you get popular. A lot of people forget that punk was pretty much founded on the DIY ethos and people need to know how to do it themselves. And if you don’t, ask.

People don’t think we actually have that capacity, but if you look at the scene and the people who make up the scene and the people that book shows, the people at the shows, the people who take the photos, people who make the zines – if you take one of those elements away, the rest of it collapses.

There are people in the scene that I have love for like my family. There’s people in the nardcore scene or kids in the audience and they may not know it, but I have a love for them because they’re supporting what I love.

When you look at the entertainment industry and you look at the DIY punk community, are there certain similarities, or are the two worlds totally different?

In my opinion, I hope they remain totally different. The entertainment industry is Britney Spears and Céline Dion and fucking Ozzfest. That’s entertainment. That’s pre-packaged. That’s sold to the consumer for a profit.

The DIY scene I see as people doing it because they love to do it. It’s like all these underground skate parks. People don’t ask for permission. They just do it because they love it. Skaters are the craziest motherfuckers out there. That’s why many skaters are punk rockers. If you can go get a plastic bucket, bang on it and it touches somebody, if it moves you, you’re expressing yourself.

Skateboarding’s an expression. I don’t even like saying it’s ‘punk as fuck’ because it was before punk rock. Punk rock is skating as fuck. I know my roots. I’m not really one for rules, not other people’s anyways. The common respect rules of the DIY scene are suggestions. I don’t think there’s ever been a punk rock rulebook that I’ve ever seen. There can’t be. That would kill it. People say it’s dead. Keep thinking it’s dead. Remove that element of people who are in it for the wrong reasons. This isn’t for everyone.

It’s like you’ve got 999 jocks and you’re the one kid who’s going to not wear the fucking Topsiders. You’re going to wear the Dr. Martens. Or, the one kid in that school photo where everybody goes ‘What the fuck is that?’ That is brave to be that one person who says ‘This is who I am. I’m not like you.’ It’s not for everyone.

I know I can sit and be a crusty old timer and look at people and go ‘What are they doing,’ but it’s none of my business.

Everybody’s in that awkward moment between life and death. We’re all fucking scared. We’re all just trying to get along and be human in a very unnatural situation because being human’s fucking difficult. You’ve got to deal with other humans. It’s like either leave me alone or let me do my thing. Or, I miss everybody, where are my people?

It’s that awkward moment, which is that time you wake up. Sleep’s easy. It’s the living part that makes it difficult. So if you choose to make it difficult and go against mainstream norms, it’s a good idea to surround yourself with likeminded people. That’s why the scene is so important. You also need to maintain your individuality, whether that means looking like the dorky guy or looking like the freaky person or just blending into everything and not being anything. You can get very philosophical, but that’s what makes it interesting.

On the surface, society looks at punk rockers like these crazy bunch of violent fucked up kids. They have no idea of the youth crew movement, the straight edge movement or the riot grrrl movement that have been in the scene for the better and the empowerment of people and the underrepresented. It’s like we represent ourselves. We learn to navigate through and around and over the general consensus of what is.

It’s an imperfect world and because we’re human, it’s going to remain imperfect. Nothing’s perfect and nothing’s permanent, which is pretty awesome. As bad as things are, they aren’t going to last. Change is inevitable.

A lot of times the scene is characterized and associated with youth culture. Society in general, is obsessed with youth as reflecting better times. Do you think ageism exists in the punk scene?

I do tend to refer to kids as kids, but I refer to anybody who’s not in my band as a kid. My little brother is a kid and he’s 50 years old. So where does my word kid have a cut off? It’s just a word I use. If I’m going to be talking about people being clueless because they’re Millennials, that’s more specific. But I generally don’t use terminology like that. Ageism isn’t a part of my ideas. I’ll accept and embrace any good idea from whoever it is. Age doesn’t matter to me. When I was a 38-year-old in a band with a 16-year-old, I called him a kid and he could have been my kid.

To call a group of punks the adults sounds kind of weird. There’s not a band called Mature Youth. Youth Brigade, they’re all over 50. Minor Threat, they’re all over 50. They are all people who have something to say. How do you define youth? For lack of a better word, kids are called kids. There can only be a handful of people who are the first at something and everything in-between is bouncing around in this gray area. So, at 56, still being in a band and still being up there and performing and playing and traveling, I don’t let age play into it. I feel I’m still a kid myself.

I’ve been divorced for a while, so if I meet a woman and perhaps this woman is not a punk rocker and doesn’t go to shows or doesn’t know anything about what I do and they ask me, ‘So what do you do for fun?’

‘Oh, I surf. I skate. I snowboard. I travel. I’m into photography. I sing in a punk band.’

And they’re looking at me like I’m their teenage son, but they’re looking at me for what I choose to find my enjoyment in as something some reckless, wild kid does.

Right. Because most of us are programmed to believe we’re supposed to grow up and fall in line by a certain age, whatever that means.

But how is that not normal? I forget that it’s not normal for a huge amount of people.

It’s not like I’m a child, but I don’t identify with nor do I understand the mentality of 56-year-old women who are all about getting the new Audi and having the right pantsuit for their office job. That’s fucking weird. But the fact that I’ll go travel halfway around the world and play to an audience of 15-year-old kids and sleep on their floor, that’s what I do. That’s still where I’m at and I don’t see anything wrong with that.

My mentality is not in line with the normal accepted societal version of what a 56-year-old man should be or not be. I grew up different. We used to freak out when my mom would show up at gigs. My mom’s only 20 years older than me. So I was 19 at the Whisky in Hollywood and we left my little brother Blake behind. He was maybe 13 and my mom drove him all the way from Oxnard to L.A., and my mom’s inside the Whisky and we’re looking at her like ‘What are you fucking doing here? You should be home. You’re fucking 39 years old.’ So back then I was giving my mom shit.

Ageism I think it can exist. I’ve been told ‘Fuck off, old man’ by some younger punks. And I don’t pull the ‘Do you know who I am?’ thing.

Something that age gives you is the ability to accept you’re not right all the time. It’s OK to learn from somebody. I’ll take a lesson anywhere. I’m not going to say ‘Oh, you don’t have the experience. I can’t listen to you.’

If you know everything, then why are you still here?

I didn’t feel I learned everything there was to know about living when I was on Silver Strand so I kept moving. I moved to L.A. For now, it’s Copenhagen. I’m not done yet. That’s the thing. That’s why I’m still in a band, I guess. I haven’t done it enough. That’s why I still surf. I haven’t caught the wave that is perfect yet. I haven’t done everything in an empty pool or taken that perfect picture yet. So I’m still giving myself room to grow and experience more.

What’s something you haven’t yet learned but it’s on your list of things to do?

Two things. Musically, I want to learn how to play guitar. I’ve been in bands for 40 years and I would like to learn guitar. I don’t know why I’m unable, but I’ve been attempting.

Number two, I want to learn to juggle. I have made several clumsy attempts at it.

Why juggling?

I have no idea why, but I’m almost obsessed with people that juggle. I think it doesn’t look like it should be possible. How could you do that? So I want to do that as well. It looks cool. Wow, these things are just in the air. It’s like real magic. I’ve done a lot of things; I can’t juggle. I won’t be done until I’ve learned. You always have to have a goal.

There’s one thing you’ll rarely hear come out of my mouth and that’s the word ‘try.’ I don’t try; I do things. If I try, I’ve pretty much given up 50 percent of my success. It’s tattooed on my arm, ‘Don’t Try.’ It’s Charles Bukowski and it speaks to me very strongly.

I’ve been sober a long time and I help people that are fucked up. Help them get sober. I’ve been doing it for 20 years. If they try to get sober, I don’t think they’re going to have a good chance. If they do stop drinking or do stop taking drugs, then they have a chance. The language of recovery, the language of change, is very important. So I rarely use the word try.

At 33 years old, I thought I was going to die a drug addict and alcoholic and not see my son grow up and not have much left to life. Then I got sober and now my son is 24 and I have a 19-year-old daughter. You never know. That’s why I tell people don’t give up.